Aller au contenu

Recherche, Vorbereitung und Interview
Research, Preparation and Interview
Ricardo Viviani

Interviewte Person
Interviewee
Blanca Noguerol Ramírez

Kamera
Camera
Sala Seddiki

Transkription
Transcript
Ricardo Viviani

Lektorat
Proofreading
Steph Morris

© Pina Bausch Foundation

Transcription

Chapitre 1

Tanz in Barcelona

01:47


Chapitre 1.1

Tanz-Hintergrund

01:47

Ricardo Viviani:

Would you tell us your journey into dance, how you started to dance, study dance, when was that?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I started as a child. My aunt was a former dancer in the Liceu, and she had a dance school. There were two things: my mother didn’t really want to bring me there – she said, ‘she can start later’ – and also I went to a doctor, and I had flat feet, so the doctor actually recommended I do dance. So as I was insisting so much to go to classes, and the doctor recommended it, she said, ‘Ok let’s just bring her there.’ So I started, like many children, having few classes – in classical ballet, yes.
I did the Royal [Academy of Dancing] exams, that they were doing at that time in Spain. Much later I entered the Institut del Teatre de Barcelona where I finished my studies in contemporary dance. This was my beginning.


Chapitre 1.2

Welche Arten von Modernem Tanz gab es in Barcelona?

03:21

Ricardo Viviani:

Contemporary dance – what sort of directions were there in Barcelona?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

There were different teachers. Mostly it was Limón Technique, but we also had Graham. I think now they’re doing a very different [programme], but when I studied some teachers were not really Limón, but inspired by Limón, then also some were coming from America, so they had more of Graham Technique. In the later years they were inviting people: for Limón I had Carlos Orta, for Graham Technique we had a dancer from the Graham Company. Afterwards I took release, and other kinds of contemporary dance, but outside of the Institut. The Institut was more formal: the Institut del Teatre de Barcelona. They have theatre and dance.


Chapitre 1.3

Struktur des Studiums

04:52

Ricardo Viviani:

The program was for a certain [number of] years?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

It changed a lot with the changes in all of Europe; the programmes had to have more in common. When I studied dance it was not a university study; it was called ‘Grau Miti’. I don’t know how to say it. Here in Germany it is a Bachelor [degree], but in Spain, even now, it is not. So if you study choreography or pedagogy you can have a university studies [degree].


Chapitre 1.4

Nach dem Studium

05:41

Ricardo Viviani:

Then you started to work in the company there?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

No, there I did some projects with some girls that finished in the same year. Then I did [some operas] in the Liceu de Barcelona. They were doing auditions when there was an opera. There’s no fixed company in the opera house but each time there was an opera and they needed dancers, they took us. There I had the possibility to dance in three different operas. At the same time that I did my dance studies, I also did physiotherapy studies. When I finished dance, I still had one year in the university, so I was dealing with studying, working, and doing projects like these.


Chapitre 2

Studium an der Folkwang Universität der Künste

06:51


Chapitre 2.1

Erstes Stück von Pina Bausch

06:51

Ricardo Viviani:

At some point you first met Pina, or saw performances when they came to Barcelona. Do you remember that?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

The first piece I saw from Pina live was in Teatro National da Catalunya. It was Masurca Fogo. I don’t remember the year, but I was still studying at the Institut. It was a big thing, Pina coming to Barcelona, and of course we all wanted to see it. I had a lot of expectations, because of what we studied in [dance] history. But before I just saw videos of Pina’s work. And not so many, just a few. I remember this day a lot. I didn’t want the piece to finish. I was really, really touched. And I was like, ‘This, I love it. I would love to dance like this.’ It was really inspiring. Then afterwards the company came more times, again to Teatre National, and there I was working part time; alongside studying I was doing other jobs. One of these jobs was at Teatre National, as an usher: the people who are making the people sit in the audience, Garderobe [cloakroom], these things. I was working there for some years. One of the years Pina came, was the last time they went to Teatre National. This was with Für die Kinder von Gestern, Heute und Morgen. There I was working, so I could see it every day.

Pour les enfants d´hier, d´aujourd´hui et de demain Masurca Fogo « Masurca Fogo » von Pina Bausch au Théâtre de la Ville Paris (France), 5 mai 1999

Ricardo Viviani:

Eventually later, you performed in Kinder, right?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Just one day, and just by accident. It was also shocking to do it. (gesture: touches heart) It’s a big thing. [Editorial comment: There was a misunderstanding. She never danced in For the Children of yesterday, today and tomorrow.]


Chapitre 2.2

Wie kam es zum Studium an der Folkwangschule?

09:35

Ricardo Viviani:

Seeing Pina in Barcelona… And at some time you had heard [about Folkwang] or had the wish to go on studying? How did that happen?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

After studying in the Institut, while I was doing those projects I was taking classes in another school, not the school of my aunt, but another school in Barcelona. There they did a workshop at Easter time where they invited Nazareth Panadero. She came to a do workshop. Of course I wanted to take it. We had lots of fun. There were more people. Some of the people I got to know in this workshop and I am still very good friends with, like Pau Aran or Meritxell Checa: people who I got to know there and now are friends. I enjoyed a lot doing the workshop. At the end I had a talk to Nazareth. There were also more people wanting to talk to her. She said: ‘If you are interested, one of the ways is maybe contacting the school, the Folkwang Hochschule.’ At that time it was ‘Hochschule’ [college], now it is ‘University’. She gave us this [tip]: ‘if you want, one possibility is this.’ She said, ‘Normally Pina is not doing auditions, or right now I don’t think she is doing them, but if you want to get closer to the work [go there].’ So I applied to the Hochschule. That year they invited me. But I was offered another opera at the Liceu. I felt, ‘Ok Blanca, they are offering you a job, or you can go to study again. Take the job. Enjoy working.’ I did it, and I kind of left it on the side. I didn't apply again. But the next May, one year after they invited me, arrived at home an invitation, if I still wanted to do it, which I didn’t expect. But I think that because I wrote saying that I cannot attend because I had a job, but really wanted to do it, maybe I asked if I could do it in another moment. I don’t know how they remembered or if they put me in a Schublade [drawer]. But I received the invitation to go. So I said, ‘I’ll go. I’ll try.’ I passed the audition to enter the school. They took me.


Chapitre 2.3

Was war neu?

13:03

Ricardo Viviani:

How was the study at the Folkwang similar or different to what you had studied before? What subjects did you have?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

There were similarities. There were things that were very different. For me I think there were two things: one was that when I was in Barcelona I never totally focused on just dance, but being in another country, in a place like Essen-Werden, I was much more just concentrated. I could really just give myself to learning. And in terms of subjects, we had classic every day and contemporary, but of course in the contemporary classes that were given I had Dominique Mercy, Malou Airaudo, Lutz [Förster], Stephan [Brinkmann]. I had many teachers but when I arrived and Dominique was teaching for me it was a big thing. I really admired all those dancers in the company. I still do. And so, for me I felt that I could still learn a lot. That’s why I kept on. Also I feel the rest of the students in the school also gave me a lot. We had this possibility of doing Junge Choreografen [young choreographers], so I was working with other students and this also gave me a lot. I really enjoyed it. It was the concentration; I was much more focused into dancing, and not studying something else. But in terms of other subjects, not so much. Of course we did Tanzgeschichte [dance history], and we did... In Spain I also did anatomy and at the Folkwang at that moment there was not those subjects. Now I think they are doing those subjects, which I feel it’s necessary as a dancer to know. Actually, I entered directly to the second year, then I applied for the master’s, so I did two years of master’s. It was the first year they did the master’s. That’s when it changed from ‘Hochschule’ to ‘University’, and we were the first people doing master’s. I did a master’s in interpretation and composition. And then we were working a lot with FTS, the Folkwang Tanz Studio. They didn’t know so good... Like we were doing some of the subjects with hours in the school, with fourth year students, and then we also had the class with FTS and private classes, doing solos or depending what was in the programme.


Chapitre 2.4

Bühnenerfahrungen

16:54

Ricardo Viviani:

There you had many possibilities to perform, also different projects, also projects with the orchestra, with the music department, a project about Ligeti and Boulez. How was that?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think I was already with FTS. We did these projects with the Klavierfestival. This was really interesting. I hope they still do it, because it was people from different departments, but especially musicians, with dancers, finding our communication, and doing something. There were different themes. There was this year of Ligeti. There was one on notation, with Ligeti. But also in the Folkwang I had the opportunity to do two things that were very enriching. I did the Feldstärke International. This was a project run by PACT Zollverein, Centquatre from Paris, and Calarts University. You could apply to these three institutions, and there were different disciplines from each place. We gathered once in Paris, once in Essen and once in Los Angeles. There we had one week to find ourselves groups, and create something. This was also very enriching. And then in PACT Zollverein there was also Agora, which was again different people, different dancers, and designers, musicians. We gathered and there were also different artists that would propose different workshops. All this was offered by being in the Folkwang. I thought this was really good.


Chapitre 2.5

Besuche am Tanztheater in Wuppertal

19:34

Ricardo Viviani:

Being in Essen-Werden you’re also very close to Wuppertal, coming to performances. Did you experience many performances? Was it a Pflichtprogram [obligatory module] to come and see performances? Did you have to write papers about the things you saw? How was the process?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Actually not really. When they made us write about performances we watched, it was open as to which performance you went to see. But I have to say, I actually watched many more performances than I could watch in Barcelona. For me this was a big difference – of price, because I feel here the students have a lot of facilities that are different to Spain. For me this was like, ‘Wow I can travel with my ticket. I can go and see performances. They make a student price.’ It was amazing. I could see a lot of things. Of course we had this facility to come to the Generalprobe, the dress rehearsal. I came to see as much as I could always. If we had rehearsal or something, then we could not come. But I came a lot to Wuppertal as a student, sure.


Chapitre 2.6

Die Geschichte der Folkwang

21:09

Ricardo Viviani:

You had dance history. Did you have repertoire classes? Did you learn old dances from Cébron or Züllig?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Actually not much. I know we did exercises from them. I know afterwards they did a little bit more. But at that time, the only thing that we learned once was Sacre, and then they picked some people to go to Wuppertal. No, we didn’t and I think it’s a pity. Actually I feel I’ve been a long time in Folkwang, and I still feel there is an incredible amount of things that I didn’t learn, or that I am still curious about. I think it is a very good institution. Maybe because I was older, maybe depending on your age and backgrounds – of course in all the schools there's always something missing. I feel sometimes students pretend that in one university they will get everything. It is not so. You have to keep on eating from all the places. But there is so much knowledge. I’d be sad if they don’t keep on teaching those things. In the rest of the world there are many other kinds of techniques. In the world there are new… (gestures: ‘rapid developments’), an express of new other things, new techniques coming. When I was studying there we also had Juan Cruz, who was giving another technique totally, which was super enriching. Of course there have to be different things, but I think Hans Züllig, Cebron techniques, should be very present, because it is a specific thing from the Folkwang.


Chapitre 2.7

Kontakt mit Pina Bausch

23:52

Ricardo Viviani:

Did you have personal contact with Pina? Did you get to know her?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

The only time that I said something to her was in the Kantine here in the Schauspielhaus, after watching a performance, a Generalprobe [dress rehearsal], and I was very shy, but I went to her and said: ‘I really like your work.’ I just said that and I [left]. It was my only speaking contact. My first contact with her – if I can say it was a contact; for me was more a contact than for her, I imagine – was when they came to Barcelona dancing Kinder. I was working there. We always gave flowers to the people in the premiere, and we always rotated who would do it. The time that she came it was pretty clear that everybody would allow me to do it. So I gave the flowers to Pina when they danced Kinder. That’s all. This is something that I will never have.

Barcelone Wuppertal Espagne Schauspielhaus Wuppertal Teatre Nacional de Catalunya « Pour les enfants d´hier, d´aujourd´hui et de demain » von Pina Bausch au Teatre Nacional de Catalunya (Espagne), 25 mai 2004

Chapitre 3

Erste Erfahrungen mit dem Repertoire

25:30


Chapitre 3.1

Mitglied des Folkwang Tanz Studio

25:30

Ricardo Viviani:

Now we can come to the company. How did it happen?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

After studying the master’s in Folkwang I entered the Folkwang Tanz Studio. When Sacre de Printemps was played many times they took people from the Folkwang: students or people from the company. That was my first time in the company; I started as a guest: 2010 we did it in Monaco. That was my first time dancing with the company, and from then on, every time they did Sacre I was in the [cast]. Sometimes we were sharing parts with people, but I did it constantly. Then there was an audition for women, and I applied. I was one of the seven last girls in the audition, but that year they didn’t take me. I was still in the FTS and they invited me to dance Auf dem Gebirge hat man ein Geschrei gehört. That was the second piece I did as a guest with the company. In that year, they actually opened another audition, and in that one they took me. I did it again, and they took me.

deSingel Antwerpen Grimaldi Forum Monaco Auf dem Gebirge hat man ein Geschrei gehört (Sur la montagne, on entendit un hurlement) Le Sacre du printemps « Auf dem Gebirge hat man ein Geschrei gehört (Sur la montagne, on entendit un hurlement) » von Pina Bausch à deSingel Antwerpen (Belgique), 4 décembre 2014 « Le Sacre du printemps » von Pina Bausch au Grimaldi Forum Monaco (Monaco), 17 décembre 2010

Chapitre 3.2

Spielzeit 2015/16

27:43

Ricardo Viviani:

As far as the records show that’s the season of 2015/16 and starts with a lot of repertoire to learn.


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes. Actually the first piece we did that year, I think, was the new production. I worked with François Chaignaud and Cecilia Bengolea, and afterwards I started to learn the repertoire.


Chapitre 3.3

Neue Einstudierung des Strawinsky-Abends

28:16

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I was going to tell you that when I was in the Folkwang Tanz Studio, there was the year of Stravinsky, and that did we did this dreiteiligen Abend [triple bill] von Stravinsky. So I danced Wind von West, Zweiter Frühling and Sacre. We did this also with FTS. This was also a great experience.


Chapitre 3.4

Verschiedene Aspekte des Werks

28:44

Ricardo Viviani:

Also with guests from Juilliard, right? How was your experience there?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes. I didn’t go to Juilliard. Just a few people went there. The Juilliard people came here. I imagine not everybody, but a good amount of people came. This was good for me, to work with Vivienne, John and Jo Ann. Tjitske also came. I did her role in Wind von West. This was also a very nice experience. Because for example, Zweiter Frühling was totally another way of working also. It’s just six people in the piece, and we learned two characters and then they decided. I learned Jo, but I didn’t dance Jo, and I danced Colleen.


Chapitre 4

Repertoire

30:05


Chapitre 4.1

Lernen lernen

30:05

Ricardo Viviani:

If you can describe, for you what things are important when you learn? There is a work with different media: video, and the people actually doing the things [that you must learn]. Can you maybe tell us what can we learn from video, and what can we learn from these people?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think it’s always much more work to learn just from the video, because in the video there’re a lot of details you cannot see. There is a lot of movements that make sense if you understand what you’re doing, and there is almost never a movement just because [of nothing]. So when you can fill those movements with meaning – but it can be any meaning. It can be that in that moment you design a word or a letter. Or it can be that in this moment the design is a feeling. It can be so many different things. But I feel there is never nothing, just like this. And there’s never just the outside. So for me the difficulty when you learn from videos is that you just see the forms. And sometimes the forms are very difficult to catch, because sometimes they are details, but if you understand what the person was doing, then you get the movement much faster. At least for me, it is much easier to understand. Doesn’t mean you will do it how it has to be. For example, when I learned Água, it was one of the first times I learned a solo from somebody. Also because you go on learning with looking at the video, and understanding. The more you work on one person, you also learn how to read better. I remember when Aida came; first I was looking at the video and Helena helped me to read the movements. She helped me a lot, because there were a lot of things that she could see that I could not alone. Then one day Aida came, and then suddenly there was an ‘Ah! Aha!’ She also gave me a script – she also wrote – which was also a big help, to understand – not just, ‘You enter here and go out there,’ but, ‘When you’re here this is happening inside of you.’ Those things are the things that help. I feel it is much richer when you can learn from this, from the person explaining to you, than when you just see the movement, because then you just copy the movement and you have to find for yourself what those movements mean. I think there are many ways of working on it, and different people like different ways of work. It is also true that they cannot just pass everything to you, because it is unpassable – I don’t know if this word exits. For sure to learn [from a person] is much richer. Even if they cannot totally explain to you what it is, they can give you a word, or something that makes you create your own story inside you. It is very interesting. I feel it is much richer if you can learn with the person.


Chapitre 4.2

Sich mit dem Repertoire identifizieren

35:13

Ricardo Viviani:

Between all of those pieces we talked about, is there one that is very close to you? Where you identify yourself with what you do?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think different pieces are special for different things. How to say this? Maybe the point is that I also could feel different Blancas, like not just what I know of myself, but making other movements, making other scenes, makes you find another you. But I don’t know if I ever thought I have a favourite one. I think I cannot choose right now. Or even, I didn’t do those pieces enough to know which one I really… (gestures ‘taking off’) because I still feel I’m working into finding those things. Maybe I will never find it. I don’t know. Of course there are pieces you enjoy more, like there’s more fun in it, so I can enjoy it. There are pieces that are much harder, so it’s harder to arrive. For example, Sacre is the one I did the most, but I feel in Sacre it’s not so much about me, Blanca. There is one part of me in Sacre. I don’t know, maybe it is a difficult question for me.


Chapitre 5

Fokus Café Müller

37:36


Chapitre 5.1

Video von Café Müller

37:36

Ricardo Viviani:

Let’s talk about Café Müller. When did you first see Café Müller? How was that?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I first saw Café Müller in the library of the Institut del Teatre. We were doing dance history. We were talking about the piece, and the teacher was always saying, ‘If you want check the pieces - of course…’ So I was interested in it, and I just saw the video. I felt, ‘Wow so different, so strange!’ I had to look at it again. It made me look at it again. I felt, ‘I don’t get it.’ Then I didn’t see it any more. I didn’t keep on watching it. I mean, it’s very long ago, so I don’t remember so much what I thought. But I remember this was the first time I saw it. At that time there was not so much on the internet, so you either go to the library and look at the video, or you just don’t have the video. And they didn’t perform [it in Barcelona]. The first time I saw it live was here, when I was already in Germany. It’s a piece that I feel never makes you feel comfortable as a spectator – or it never makes me feel comfortable. It brings you to an inner journey, as a spectator, because of all of these different characters. There are emotions in this piece that everybody could relate to, like very deep basic life feelings, for me.


Chapitre 5.2

Café Müller in Barcelona

40:23

Ricardo Viviani:

Then Café Müller was performed in Barcelona; you were already in Germany. How was that experience over there?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Luckily I was there because it was September, so the university hadn’t started here. Also some of my friends from Folkwang were dancing as guests in Sacre, so I was really excited to see them. Pau was already in the company, and Alexandre, and other dancers. They were in the Liceu where I had also worked. I was like, ‘Maybe I can take class with them.’ So I asked my friends and they said, ‘Of course, just ask and you will be able to take class [training].’ Then we asked, they said yes, I could. I was with Monserrat, a dancer from Barcelona; she also studied with me at the Folkwang. We were living together in Essen-Werden and we were in Barcelona. We trusted ourselves to go to Liceu and ask if we could take the class. The security was very strong. At that time it was already in the new building, the new Liceu, after the fire. They didn’t let us in because we were not from the company. So we waited at the door. Nazareth appeared to take class: ‘Hello Blanca!’ And I said I would like to take the class, but they don’t let me in. She spoke to the people and explained we were from the school and everything is fine, and they let us in. So my first time to take class with the company was in Barcelona.

Essen Folkwang Hochschule Essen Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona Alexandre Castres Nazareth Panadero Pablo Aran Gimeno Pina Bausch « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona (Espagne), 10 septembre 2008

Chapitre 5.3

Das Stück löst 2008 noch Kontroversen aus

42:38

Ricardo Viviani:

Then you watched the performance. How was it to be in the public [audience] there? You were in Barcelona, all very familiar to you. How did you feel was the reaction of the public?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Actually it was funny because all of my family and friends knew that I went to Germany because I love this company, and I love this work. So everybody from my surroundings, from my family, was curious to see it, to watch it. Almost everybody went. I think I was able to see it another time, apart the time I bought a ticket. Through the company there was a ticket free. When I saw it myself, I saw it [higher] up, and the day they let me go in and I sat in the platea [stalls], and there I had this experience, because there were people from the platea – the Liceu is very conservative, people who are used to listening to opera, to classical ballets, but not so much to modern things. When there are modern things they’re really (gestures: ‘push back against it’). There are some people who are not, but a lot of people are. I was sitting there, and I knew Pina was dancing, and I was really like [excited]. It starts with this silence, and a man starts really loudly: ‘What’s going on? There’s music or not? I can hear things, but I don’t see anything. Do you see something?’ Talking to a woman, but so loud! I was thinking, ‘Why? I don’t get it. Why does somebody have to be like this?’ And he was really loud and really annoyed the whole performance. So when it finished, there was a lot of applause, but I also remember some boos. And I was shocked – because I knew how old the piece was – that it would still provoke people in this way. I think it’s still a piece that provokes this. It not an easy one to watch.

Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona Pina Bausch « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona (Espagne), 10 septembre 2008

Chapitre 6

Im Café arbeiten

45:35


Chapitre 6.1

Casting zu Café Müller

45:35

Ricardo Viviani:

At some point you were asked to learn one role. How was that, who asked you?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

This was in the first season I was here, and some of us were asked to learn. Breanna, Emma Barrowman, and I were asked to learn Nazareth’s role. So we did. We worked with her, and she taught us the whole piece. They were already thinking in this of passing on of the piece. I felt very lucky that I could be there inside. It was actually very interesting. We had rehearsals first with her alone, then with the others. Then we could also try a run-through, all of us. This was already very special. In the Lichtburg we didn’t have the Bühnenbild [stage sets], but when we rehearsed in the Opernhaus [opera house], in the rooms upstairs, in the Probebühne (rehearsal rooms) 1 or 2, there they built the doors, so it was like a kind of set, already having the Mantel [overcoat] and doing it, even without the Perücke [wig], was a big experience; it was a great thing. I felt very lucky. I don’t know if because I’ve been in Folkwang, or that I know how the things have been happening very slowly for me – I never get it like… (clicks fingers: ‘fast’), the first time I do something – that I appreciate it a lot just if I can learn something, because I know how precious it is. Maybe you don’t get to do it onstage, but for me there’s already a lot of value in just learning it. So I was really happy, although of course I was also very sad because I knew I would not be the one doing it. You asked me who asked me, but I think it was nobody really asking me, or maybe it was Lutz who told us what we’d be learning in the season. Then came the rehearsals and I was in the schedule. In that moment they picked Breanna to do that. And so I didn’t continue [to learn it]. They said that they would centre it on her, but we could still watch; they didn’t totally say, ‘No.’ Later on they asked me again to watch. I think we were in Hong Kong when they told me I should watch again.

Wuppertal Hongkong Cultural Center, Grand Theatre Lichtburg Wuppertal Opernhaus Wuppertal Breanna O'Mara Emma Barrowman Lutz Förster Nazareth Panadero Café Müller « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Hongkong Cultural Center, Grand Theatre (République populaire de Chine), 8 mars 2017

Chapitre 6.2

Café Müller in Australien

49:47

Ricardo Viviani:

Café was in Australia?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes, but there it was always Nazareth dancing.

St. James Theatre Wellington Nazareth Panadero Café Müller « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au St. James Theatre Wellington (Nouvelle-Zélande), 16 mars 2016

Chapitre 6.3

Auf der Café Müller-Bühne

50:05

Ricardo Viviani:

But eventually you got to perform it. Where?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes, the first time I could perform it was in New York, now one year ago. It was September 2017, later than now, but I think it was in September.

BAM New York Café Müller « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au BAM New York (États-Unis d'Amérique), 14 septembre 2017

Chapitre 6.4

Nîmes

50:34

Ricardo Viviani:

Yes, it was the first thing in the season last year. And in Nîmes?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

No, in Nîmes I didn’t dance. In Nîmes it was also Nazareth. Actually Breanna did the general rehearsal (dress rehearsal), but all the performances were Nazareth dancing. But Nîmes was beautiful. It was amazing, because the theatre was amazing. To dance Sacre was also a great experience in this theatre, in Nîmes, because it was open air, already the building is amazing. It was a very nice experience, live music. During Café Müller I had Gänsehaut [goose bumps] all the time.

Arènes de Nîmes Breanna O'Mara Nazareth Panadero « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Théâtre de Nîmes (France), 6 juin 2016

Chapitre 6.5

Lange Lernzeit

52:00

Ricardo Viviani:

You learned the piece for many years, from the first season that you were in the company to last season when you actually danced. Watching, learning from Nazareth, experiencing the piece, what kind of insights do you have from this person, this role, this person that goes about this room? How is that for you, how do you approach it as a performer?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think there’s an inner story that happens to this character. There is a build-up during the piece, but there’s one thing from this character that brings you through the whole piece, to be able to do it. There is one feeling, at least this is what happens to me. There’s one feeling that goes from the very beginning to the end. I think there is something from my being, actually, maybe it’s too much to say like this. I just mean there is a characteristic of this character, I feel near to. And this is what helps me doing it. I think it’s a very delicate piece. It’s a very delicate character. I don’t feel I am there yet, where Nazareth or the Probeleiter [rehearsal director] want me to be. I think there’s still a lot of work to do, for sure, still. There are some characteristics, there are some things I can work on physically that will be there or not, but there are also inner things that have to help you, and this is not learned easily.


Chapitre 6.6

Weiterlernen

55:17

Ricardo Viviani:

Do you feel you have enough rehearsal possibilities? Would you like to have more? Or is it truly the performing with the public [audience], that adds that special moment that develops it?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think there’s a lot of work alone, for sure. I feel it’s very important for me when somebody from outside looks at me and tells me, when Nazareth is there and can say. I also have to say that Nazareth is a person that understands that these things don’t come so fast. She doesn’t push things to happen, but she keeps telling you where you should aim. I have the feeling that she leaves you space to find out who am I in Café Müller, or who can I be in Café Müller, not just copy what she’s doing. One needs the movement of course, trying to be as much like what it should be. But as far as performing goes there’s a lot of room. I think you can also rehearse a lot, but at some point on stage you learn other things that you cannot learn in the rehearsals. When you really perform this piece, when we’re all really involved, really performing, I felt there was another level of learning something else from the piece that didn’t happen in the rehearsal. And I don’t know if it’s because of the public or because what happens in the theatre, this kind of magic. But there were things that I first understood what Nazareth was talking about when I was on the stage. So I think there’s a big journey to go. I really feel just in the first step of the…


Chapitre 6.7

Persönliche Vorbereitung

58:03

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

And maybe I can tell you just a very stupid little thing. My hair and Nazareth’s hair are so different. We have to prepare our hair to be able to put the Perücke [wig] on. So when I first had to perform it I thought, ‘Oh my God, what am I going to do with my hair?’ It was very beautiful and very nice. In the other pieces you just do your hair and that’s it. I think it was my first piece dancing with a Perücke. Helena helped me to do my hair, because Helena helps Nazareth to do her hair. But then it was difficult and Pau was also there. He was also doing the piece, and we are very good friends, he said, ‘I can also help.’ So then it ended up that Pau and Helena were doing my hair before performing. I have this feeling that there is so much care of each other before the piece starts. I think this makes it very special then, because there are a lot of these connections of one taking care of the other, even before, something like this, which for me makes the piece very special.


Chapitre 6.8

Vorbereitungen

59:51

Ricardo Viviani:

We talked also about how the rehearsals for Café are on other days. Can you tell us about that?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I felt always this was a very special piece, because we were never allowed to see a rehearsal. There was never public allowed, at least since I’ve been doing Sacre, which was the first time that I got near to the company. Even us, we didn’t dare to ask if we could watch a rehearsal. And the general rehearsal [dress rehearsal] was always closed for Café Müller, and maybe open then for us [Sacre]. Then there’s this organisational things, that Café Müller flies before, things from the stage, because the two Bühnenbilder [sets] are so different they need to organise the two pieces very differently. You cannot rehearse at the same time at all. There’s always this sacredness of the piece, I feel, this silence they need, which is super understandable. Once Café Müller starts, in the Ballettsaal starts the training for the people who are dancing Sacre, of course, because it’s a timing thing. You don’t even do the warm up together. It made it also this special thing.


Chapitre 6.9

Den Doppelabend tanzen

01:02:00

Ricardo Viviani:

When you performed in New York, did you perform Sacre afterwards as well? That’s a completely different world as a performer. How was that? Was that a burden, a hard thing, how did you deal with it?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Somehow it helps that you’ve been onstage already. Although it’s a different character there’s something that helps. Also because you don’t have so much time, so I have to prepare my hair, take off the Nagellack [nail polish]. Maybe it was not necessary, but I cannot dance Sacre; we don’t do any make up. I was kind of wiping off the woman that just danced (laughs) to become something very neutral. But probably the role that I am dancing now in Sacre, which is actually the beginning, the woman that is lying, is heavy because I really have to push because I am the first one to enter. I really have to [say], ‘Blanca calm down, calm down. Concentrate to do another thing.’ But maybe it is so like this you cannot think so much. Once you step on the earth you are in the other world. There is no chance to become anything else. It’s just: in Sacre you can just try to survive. (laughs)


Chapitre 6.10

Sehr spezieller Raum

01:04:19

Ricardo Viviani:

Just to move to a finish is there something else that flashed into your mind and you wanted to [say]?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think Café Müller probably is so different for each person who’s living it. Of course all the pieces are very different, but in this one specially I feel, somehow, I find it beautiful how there's not so many characters onstage, but the piece makes it that with some people you almost don’t have contact, and with some people you see it just in a moment – and how strong it is then, because it’s not that our characters don’t have contact, at all. It’s not an abstract dance. There is character. There is a lot of humanity. For me it makes it special, in this room, in this café, you enter another world. It’s a very special room.


Chapitre 7

Was ist Tanztheater?

01:06:14


Chapitre 7.1

‚Wow, das ist richtig gut!‘

01:06:14

Ricardo Viviani:

You’ve been involved for many years with a company called Tanztheater Wuppertal Pina Bausch, what is Tanztheater [dance theatre]? How would you describe Tanztheater?


Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I mean I have to say still now, if I go to see other companies, like I did this weekend, going to see different performances, and then I go and see my colleagues – they were doing Vollmond – I feel, ‘Wow, this is really good!’ (laughs) It’s really good that I am here because I really think that what Pina created with all those dancers, all those pieces, they still move me as a spectator. They move me as a performer and they move me as a spectator. At the end I feel that for me this is what makes sense if you do performative art. And so for me it’s a kind of performance where there’s a lot of humanity, there’s a lot of critique, there’s a lot of questioning. And there’s a lot of talking about reality, but in a way that’s... really real. So never being just dramatic, but in the drama there's always humour, and in humour there’s always sadness, showing all those kinds of different people that we are in the world. So I think what was Tanztheater Wuppertal, I don’t know if it still is. I would like that it keeps on going. I feel that there’s a lot of beautiful pieces that I think are great to keep on going. They have a very big artistic value. I don’t know if this answers your question? (laughs)

I’ll also say what Tanztheater Wuppertal is for me, and actually I can say it totally changed my life. Because if I didn’t dream to be dancing in this company, I would never have been living in Germany. I would never had found my partner in Germany. The love for this work totally brought me to another way. That’s why I feel it’s very worth it to keep on putting my effort into it, because I really believe in it. When things have to end, it’s also fine. I don’t know if Pina would agree that we keep on doing it. I sometimes have questions to Pina. How can you miss somebody that you’ve never got to know? But working here sometimes I feel like, ‘Oh it’d be so good if she was here, telling something now.’ It’s a big love for this work. (laughs)

Tanztheater Wuppertal

Interview avec Blanca Noguerol Ramírez, 19.12.2018

Pour de nombreuse personnes, le premier contact avec l'œuvre de Pina Bausch se fait par les médias. Les captations de Café Müller et Le Sacre du printemps ont donné une plus grande visibilité au travail de la chorégraphe. Pendant les études de Blanca Noguerol Ramiréz à l'Institut del Teatre de Barcelona, le Tanztheater Wuppertal est venu à Barcelone avec Masurca Fogo. Elle a pu voir la compagnie sur scène pour la première fois. Elle a été inspirée. Un atelier à Madrid avec Nazareth Panadero a créé un pont pour partir étudier à l'Université des Arts Folkwang en Allemagne. Le séjour à Essen-Werden n'a pas seulement été l'occasion de se confronter à de nouvelles approches de la danse et de s'engager totalement, mais aussi celle de pouvoir intégrer la compagnie. Cette interview décrit son expérience du rôle dans Café Müller, créé par Meryl Tankard et interprété de manière iconique par Nazareth Panadero. La passion et le respect de Blanca pour cette œuvre transparaissent dans son interview.

La version originale de cette interview est en anglais.

transcriptionRicardo Viviani
interviewé/interviewéeBlanca Noguerol Ramírez
interviewerRicardo Viviani

Permalink:
archives.pinabausch.org/id/20180919_83_0001


Table des matières

1

2

3

4

5

6

7


Chapitre 1

Tanz in Barcelona

Chapitre 1.1

Tanz-Hintergrund

Ricardo Viviani:

Would you tell us your journey into dance, how you started to dance, study dance, when was that?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I started as a child. My aunt was a former dancer in the Liceu, and she had a dance school. There were two things: my mother didn’t really want to bring me there – she said, ‘she can start later’ – and also I went to a doctor, and I had flat feet, so the doctor actually recommended I do dance. So as I was insisting so much to go to classes, and the doctor recommended it, she said, ‘Ok let’s just bring her there.’ So I started, like many children, having few classes – in classical ballet, yes.
I did the Royal [Academy of Dancing] exams, that they were doing at that time in Spain. Much later I entered the Institut del Teatre de Barcelona where I finished my studies in contemporary dance. This was my beginning.

Chapitre 1.2

Welche Arten von Modernem Tanz gab es in Barcelona?

Ricardo Viviani:

Contemporary dance – what sort of directions were there in Barcelona?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

There were different teachers. Mostly it was Limón Technique, but we also had Graham. I think now they’re doing a very different [programme], but when I studied some teachers were not really Limón, but inspired by Limón, then also some were coming from America, so they had more of Graham Technique. In the later years they were inviting people: for Limón I had Carlos Orta, for Graham Technique we had a dancer from the Graham Company. Afterwards I took release, and other kinds of contemporary dance, but outside of the Institut. The Institut was more formal: the Institut del Teatre de Barcelona. They have theatre and dance.

Chapitre 1.3

Struktur des Studiums

Ricardo Viviani:

The program was for a certain [number of] years?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

It changed a lot with the changes in all of Europe; the programmes had to have more in common. When I studied dance it was not a university study; it was called ‘Grau Miti’. I don’t know how to say it. Here in Germany it is a Bachelor [degree], but in Spain, even now, it is not. So if you study choreography or pedagogy you can have a university studies [degree].

Chapitre 1.4

Nach dem Studium

Ricardo Viviani:

Then you started to work in the company there?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

No, there I did some projects with some girls that finished in the same year. Then I did [some operas] in the Liceu de Barcelona. They were doing auditions when there was an opera. There’s no fixed company in the opera house but each time there was an opera and they needed dancers, they took us. There I had the possibility to dance in three different operas. At the same time that I did my dance studies, I also did physiotherapy studies. When I finished dance, I still had one year in the university, so I was dealing with studying, working, and doing projects like these.


Chapitre 2

Studium an der Folkwang Universität der Künste

Chapitre 2.1

Erstes Stück von Pina Bausch

Ricardo Viviani:

At some point you first met Pina, or saw performances when they came to Barcelona. Do you remember that?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

The first piece I saw from Pina live was in Teatro National da Catalunya. It was Masurca Fogo. I don’t remember the year, but I was still studying at the Institut. It was a big thing, Pina coming to Barcelona, and of course we all wanted to see it. I had a lot of expectations, because of what we studied in [dance] history. But before I just saw videos of Pina’s work. And not so many, just a few. I remember this day a lot. I didn’t want the piece to finish. I was really, really touched. And I was like, ‘This, I love it. I would love to dance like this.’ It was really inspiring. Then afterwards the company came more times, again to Teatre National, and there I was working part time; alongside studying I was doing other jobs. One of these jobs was at Teatre National, as an usher: the people who are making the people sit in the audience, Garderobe [cloakroom], these things. I was working there for some years. One of the years Pina came, was the last time they went to Teatre National. This was with Für die Kinder von Gestern, Heute und Morgen. There I was working, so I could see it every day.

Pour les enfants d´hier, d´aujourd´hui et de demain Masurca Fogo « Masurca Fogo » von Pina Bausch au Théâtre de la Ville Paris (France), 5 mai 1999

Ricardo Viviani:

Eventually later, you performed in Kinder, right?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Just one day, and just by accident. It was also shocking to do it. (gesture: touches heart) It’s a big thing. [Editorial comment: There was a misunderstanding. She never danced in For the Children of yesterday, today and tomorrow.]

Chapitre 2.2

Wie kam es zum Studium an der Folkwangschule?

Ricardo Viviani:

Seeing Pina in Barcelona… And at some time you had heard [about Folkwang] or had the wish to go on studying? How did that happen?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

After studying in the Institut, while I was doing those projects I was taking classes in another school, not the school of my aunt, but another school in Barcelona. There they did a workshop at Easter time where they invited Nazareth Panadero. She came to a do workshop. Of course I wanted to take it. We had lots of fun. There were more people. Some of the people I got to know in this workshop and I am still very good friends with, like Pau Aran or Meritxell Checa: people who I got to know there and now are friends. I enjoyed a lot doing the workshop. At the end I had a talk to Nazareth. There were also more people wanting to talk to her. She said: ‘If you are interested, one of the ways is maybe contacting the school, the Folkwang Hochschule.’ At that time it was ‘Hochschule’ [college], now it is ‘University’. She gave us this [tip]: ‘if you want, one possibility is this.’ She said, ‘Normally Pina is not doing auditions, or right now I don’t think she is doing them, but if you want to get closer to the work [go there].’ So I applied to the Hochschule. That year they invited me. But I was offered another opera at the Liceu. I felt, ‘Ok Blanca, they are offering you a job, or you can go to study again. Take the job. Enjoy working.’ I did it, and I kind of left it on the side. I didn't apply again. But the next May, one year after they invited me, arrived at home an invitation, if I still wanted to do it, which I didn’t expect. But I think that because I wrote saying that I cannot attend because I had a job, but really wanted to do it, maybe I asked if I could do it in another moment. I don’t know how they remembered or if they put me in a Schublade [drawer]. But I received the invitation to go. So I said, ‘I’ll go. I’ll try.’ I passed the audition to enter the school. They took me.

Chapitre 2.3

Was war neu?

Ricardo Viviani:

How was the study at the Folkwang similar or different to what you had studied before? What subjects did you have?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

There were similarities. There were things that were very different. For me I think there were two things: one was that when I was in Barcelona I never totally focused on just dance, but being in another country, in a place like Essen-Werden, I was much more just concentrated. I could really just give myself to learning. And in terms of subjects, we had classic every day and contemporary, but of course in the contemporary classes that were given I had Dominique Mercy, Malou Airaudo, Lutz [Förster], Stephan [Brinkmann]. I had many teachers but when I arrived and Dominique was teaching for me it was a big thing. I really admired all those dancers in the company. I still do. And so, for me I felt that I could still learn a lot. That’s why I kept on. Also I feel the rest of the students in the school also gave me a lot. We had this possibility of doing Junge Choreografen [young choreographers], so I was working with other students and this also gave me a lot. I really enjoyed it. It was the concentration; I was much more focused into dancing, and not studying something else. But in terms of other subjects, not so much. Of course we did Tanzgeschichte [dance history], and we did... In Spain I also did anatomy and at the Folkwang at that moment there was not those subjects. Now I think they are doing those subjects, which I feel it’s necessary as a dancer to know. Actually, I entered directly to the second year, then I applied for the master’s, so I did two years of master’s. It was the first year they did the master’s. That’s when it changed from ‘Hochschule’ to ‘University’, and we were the first people doing master’s. I did a master’s in interpretation and composition. And then we were working a lot with FTS, the Folkwang Tanz Studio. They didn’t know so good... Like we were doing some of the subjects with hours in the school, with fourth year students, and then we also had the class with FTS and private classes, doing solos or depending what was in the programme.

Chapitre 2.4

Bühnenerfahrungen

Ricardo Viviani:

There you had many possibilities to perform, also different projects, also projects with the orchestra, with the music department, a project about Ligeti and Boulez. How was that?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think I was already with FTS. We did these projects with the Klavierfestival. This was really interesting. I hope they still do it, because it was people from different departments, but especially musicians, with dancers, finding our communication, and doing something. There were different themes. There was this year of Ligeti. There was one on notation, with Ligeti. But also in the Folkwang I had the opportunity to do two things that were very enriching. I did the Feldstärke International. This was a project run by PACT Zollverein, Centquatre from Paris, and Calarts University. You could apply to these three institutions, and there were different disciplines from each place. We gathered once in Paris, once in Essen and once in Los Angeles. There we had one week to find ourselves groups, and create something. This was also very enriching. And then in PACT Zollverein there was also Agora, which was again different people, different dancers, and designers, musicians. We gathered and there were also different artists that would propose different workshops. All this was offered by being in the Folkwang. I thought this was really good.

Chapitre 2.5

Besuche am Tanztheater in Wuppertal

Ricardo Viviani:

Being in Essen-Werden you’re also very close to Wuppertal, coming to performances. Did you experience many performances? Was it a Pflichtprogram [obligatory module] to come and see performances? Did you have to write papers about the things you saw? How was the process?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Actually not really. When they made us write about performances we watched, it was open as to which performance you went to see. But I have to say, I actually watched many more performances than I could watch in Barcelona. For me this was a big difference – of price, because I feel here the students have a lot of facilities that are different to Spain. For me this was like, ‘Wow I can travel with my ticket. I can go and see performances. They make a student price.’ It was amazing. I could see a lot of things. Of course we had this facility to come to the Generalprobe, the dress rehearsal. I came to see as much as I could always. If we had rehearsal or something, then we could not come. But I came a lot to Wuppertal as a student, sure.

Chapitre 2.6

Die Geschichte der Folkwang

Ricardo Viviani:

You had dance history. Did you have repertoire classes? Did you learn old dances from Cébron or Züllig?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Actually not much. I know we did exercises from them. I know afterwards they did a little bit more. But at that time, the only thing that we learned once was Sacre, and then they picked some people to go to Wuppertal. No, we didn’t and I think it’s a pity. Actually I feel I’ve been a long time in Folkwang, and I still feel there is an incredible amount of things that I didn’t learn, or that I am still curious about. I think it is a very good institution. Maybe because I was older, maybe depending on your age and backgrounds – of course in all the schools there's always something missing. I feel sometimes students pretend that in one university they will get everything. It is not so. You have to keep on eating from all the places. But there is so much knowledge. I’d be sad if they don’t keep on teaching those things. In the rest of the world there are many other kinds of techniques. In the world there are new… (gestures: ‘rapid developments’), an express of new other things, new techniques coming. When I was studying there we also had Juan Cruz, who was giving another technique totally, which was super enriching. Of course there have to be different things, but I think Hans Züllig, Cebron techniques, should be very present, because it is a specific thing from the Folkwang.

Chapitre 2.7

Kontakt mit Pina Bausch

Ricardo Viviani:

Did you have personal contact with Pina? Did you get to know her?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

The only time that I said something to her was in the Kantine here in the Schauspielhaus, after watching a performance, a Generalprobe [dress rehearsal], and I was very shy, but I went to her and said: ‘I really like your work.’ I just said that and I [left]. It was my only speaking contact. My first contact with her – if I can say it was a contact; for me was more a contact than for her, I imagine – was when they came to Barcelona dancing Kinder. I was working there. We always gave flowers to the people in the premiere, and we always rotated who would do it. The time that she came it was pretty clear that everybody would allow me to do it. So I gave the flowers to Pina when they danced Kinder. That’s all. This is something that I will never have.

Barcelone Wuppertal Espagne Schauspielhaus Wuppertal Teatre Nacional de Catalunya « Pour les enfants d´hier, d´aujourd´hui et de demain » von Pina Bausch au Teatre Nacional de Catalunya (Espagne), 25 mai 2004

Chapitre 3

Erste Erfahrungen mit dem Repertoire

Chapitre 3.1

Mitglied des Folkwang Tanz Studio

Ricardo Viviani:

Now we can come to the company. How did it happen?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

After studying the master’s in Folkwang I entered the Folkwang Tanz Studio. When Sacre de Printemps was played many times they took people from the Folkwang: students or people from the company. That was my first time in the company; I started as a guest: 2010 we did it in Monaco. That was my first time dancing with the company, and from then on, every time they did Sacre I was in the [cast]. Sometimes we were sharing parts with people, but I did it constantly. Then there was an audition for women, and I applied. I was one of the seven last girls in the audition, but that year they didn’t take me. I was still in the FTS and they invited me to dance Auf dem Gebirge hat man ein Geschrei gehört. That was the second piece I did as a guest with the company. In that year, they actually opened another audition, and in that one they took me. I did it again, and they took me.

deSingel Antwerpen Grimaldi Forum Monaco Auf dem Gebirge hat man ein Geschrei gehört (Sur la montagne, on entendit un hurlement) Le Sacre du printemps « Auf dem Gebirge hat man ein Geschrei gehört (Sur la montagne, on entendit un hurlement) » von Pina Bausch à deSingel Antwerpen (Belgique), 4 décembre 2014 « Le Sacre du printemps » von Pina Bausch au Grimaldi Forum Monaco (Monaco), 17 décembre 2010

Chapitre 3.2

Spielzeit 2015/16

Ricardo Viviani:

As far as the records show that’s the season of 2015/16 and starts with a lot of repertoire to learn.

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes. Actually the first piece we did that year, I think, was the new production. I worked with François Chaignaud and Cecilia Bengolea, and afterwards I started to learn the repertoire.

Chapitre 3.3

Neue Einstudierung des Strawinsky-Abends

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I was going to tell you that when I was in the Folkwang Tanz Studio, there was the year of Stravinsky, and that did we did this dreiteiligen Abend [triple bill] von Stravinsky. So I danced Wind von West, Zweiter Frühling and Sacre. We did this also with FTS. This was also a great experience.

Chapitre 3.4

Verschiedene Aspekte des Werks

Ricardo Viviani:

Also with guests from Juilliard, right? How was your experience there?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes. I didn’t go to Juilliard. Just a few people went there. The Juilliard people came here. I imagine not everybody, but a good amount of people came. This was good for me, to work with Vivienne, John and Jo Ann. Tjitske also came. I did her role in Wind von West. This was also a very nice experience. Because for example, Zweiter Frühling was totally another way of working also. It’s just six people in the piece, and we learned two characters and then they decided. I learned Jo, but I didn’t dance Jo, and I danced Colleen.


Chapitre 4

Repertoire

Chapitre 4.1

Lernen lernen

Ricardo Viviani:

If you can describe, for you what things are important when you learn? There is a work with different media: video, and the people actually doing the things [that you must learn]. Can you maybe tell us what can we learn from video, and what can we learn from these people?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think it’s always much more work to learn just from the video, because in the video there’re a lot of details you cannot see. There is a lot of movements that make sense if you understand what you’re doing, and there is almost never a movement just because [of nothing]. So when you can fill those movements with meaning – but it can be any meaning. It can be that in that moment you design a word or a letter. Or it can be that in this moment the design is a feeling. It can be so many different things. But I feel there is never nothing, just like this. And there’s never just the outside. So for me the difficulty when you learn from videos is that you just see the forms. And sometimes the forms are very difficult to catch, because sometimes they are details, but if you understand what the person was doing, then you get the movement much faster. At least for me, it is much easier to understand. Doesn’t mean you will do it how it has to be. For example, when I learned Água, it was one of the first times I learned a solo from somebody. Also because you go on learning with looking at the video, and understanding. The more you work on one person, you also learn how to read better. I remember when Aida came; first I was looking at the video and Helena helped me to read the movements. She helped me a lot, because there were a lot of things that she could see that I could not alone. Then one day Aida came, and then suddenly there was an ‘Ah! Aha!’ She also gave me a script – she also wrote – which was also a big help, to understand – not just, ‘You enter here and go out there,’ but, ‘When you’re here this is happening inside of you.’ Those things are the things that help. I feel it is much richer when you can learn from this, from the person explaining to you, than when you just see the movement, because then you just copy the movement and you have to find for yourself what those movements mean. I think there are many ways of working on it, and different people like different ways of work. It is also true that they cannot just pass everything to you, because it is unpassable – I don’t know if this word exits. For sure to learn [from a person] is much richer. Even if they cannot totally explain to you what it is, they can give you a word, or something that makes you create your own story inside you. It is very interesting. I feel it is much richer if you can learn with the person.

Chapitre 4.2

Sich mit dem Repertoire identifizieren

Ricardo Viviani:

Between all of those pieces we talked about, is there one that is very close to you? Where you identify yourself with what you do?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think different pieces are special for different things. How to say this? Maybe the point is that I also could feel different Blancas, like not just what I know of myself, but making other movements, making other scenes, makes you find another you. But I don’t know if I ever thought I have a favourite one. I think I cannot choose right now. Or even, I didn’t do those pieces enough to know which one I really… (gestures ‘taking off’) because I still feel I’m working into finding those things. Maybe I will never find it. I don’t know. Of course there are pieces you enjoy more, like there’s more fun in it, so I can enjoy it. There are pieces that are much harder, so it’s harder to arrive. For example, Sacre is the one I did the most, but I feel in Sacre it’s not so much about me, Blanca. There is one part of me in Sacre. I don’t know, maybe it is a difficult question for me.


Chapitre 5

Fokus Café Müller

Chapitre 5.1

Video von Café Müller

Ricardo Viviani:

Let’s talk about Café Müller. When did you first see Café Müller? How was that?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I first saw Café Müller in the library of the Institut del Teatre. We were doing dance history. We were talking about the piece, and the teacher was always saying, ‘If you want check the pieces - of course…’ So I was interested in it, and I just saw the video. I felt, ‘Wow so different, so strange!’ I had to look at it again. It made me look at it again. I felt, ‘I don’t get it.’ Then I didn’t see it any more. I didn’t keep on watching it. I mean, it’s very long ago, so I don’t remember so much what I thought. But I remember this was the first time I saw it. At that time there was not so much on the internet, so you either go to the library and look at the video, or you just don’t have the video. And they didn’t perform [it in Barcelona]. The first time I saw it live was here, when I was already in Germany. It’s a piece that I feel never makes you feel comfortable as a spectator – or it never makes me feel comfortable. It brings you to an inner journey, as a spectator, because of all of these different characters. There are emotions in this piece that everybody could relate to, like very deep basic life feelings, for me.

Chapitre 5.2

Café Müller in Barcelona

Ricardo Viviani:

Then Café Müller was performed in Barcelona; you were already in Germany. How was that experience over there?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Luckily I was there because it was September, so the university hadn’t started here. Also some of my friends from Folkwang were dancing as guests in Sacre, so I was really excited to see them. Pau was already in the company, and Alexandre, and other dancers. They were in the Liceu where I had also worked. I was like, ‘Maybe I can take class with them.’ So I asked my friends and they said, ‘Of course, just ask and you will be able to take class [training].’ Then we asked, they said yes, I could. I was with Monserrat, a dancer from Barcelona; she also studied with me at the Folkwang. We were living together in Essen-Werden and we were in Barcelona. We trusted ourselves to go to Liceu and ask if we could take the class. The security was very strong. At that time it was already in the new building, the new Liceu, after the fire. They didn’t let us in because we were not from the company. So we waited at the door. Nazareth appeared to take class: ‘Hello Blanca!’ And I said I would like to take the class, but they don’t let me in. She spoke to the people and explained we were from the school and everything is fine, and they let us in. So my first time to take class with the company was in Barcelona.

Essen Folkwang Hochschule Essen Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona Alexandre Castres Nazareth Panadero Pablo Aran Gimeno Pina Bausch « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona (Espagne), 10 septembre 2008

Chapitre 5.3

Das Stück löst 2008 noch Kontroversen aus

Ricardo Viviani:

Then you watched the performance. How was it to be in the public [audience] there? You were in Barcelona, all very familiar to you. How did you feel was the reaction of the public?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Actually it was funny because all of my family and friends knew that I went to Germany because I love this company, and I love this work. So everybody from my surroundings, from my family, was curious to see it, to watch it. Almost everybody went. I think I was able to see it another time, apart the time I bought a ticket. Through the company there was a ticket free. When I saw it myself, I saw it [higher] up, and the day they let me go in and I sat in the platea [stalls], and there I had this experience, because there were people from the platea – the Liceu is very conservative, people who are used to listening to opera, to classical ballets, but not so much to modern things. When there are modern things they’re really (gestures: ‘push back against it’). There are some people who are not, but a lot of people are. I was sitting there, and I knew Pina was dancing, and I was really like [excited]. It starts with this silence, and a man starts really loudly: ‘What’s going on? There’s music or not? I can hear things, but I don’t see anything. Do you see something?’ Talking to a woman, but so loud! I was thinking, ‘Why? I don’t get it. Why does somebody have to be like this?’ And he was really loud and really annoyed the whole performance. So when it finished, there was a lot of applause, but I also remember some boos. And I was shocked – because I knew how old the piece was – that it would still provoke people in this way. I think it’s still a piece that provokes this. It not an easy one to watch.

Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona Pina Bausch « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Gran Teatre del Liceu Barcelona (Espagne), 10 septembre 2008

Chapitre 6

Im Café arbeiten

Chapitre 6.1

Casting zu Café Müller

Ricardo Viviani:

At some point you were asked to learn one role. How was that, who asked you?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

This was in the first season I was here, and some of us were asked to learn. Breanna, Emma Barrowman, and I were asked to learn Nazareth’s role. So we did. We worked with her, and she taught us the whole piece. They were already thinking in this of passing on of the piece. I felt very lucky that I could be there inside. It was actually very interesting. We had rehearsals first with her alone, then with the others. Then we could also try a run-through, all of us. This was already very special. In the Lichtburg we didn’t have the Bühnenbild [stage sets], but when we rehearsed in the Opernhaus [opera house], in the rooms upstairs, in the Probebühne (rehearsal rooms) 1 or 2, there they built the doors, so it was like a kind of set, already having the Mantel [overcoat] and doing it, even without the Perücke [wig], was a big experience; it was a great thing. I felt very lucky. I don’t know if because I’ve been in Folkwang, or that I know how the things have been happening very slowly for me – I never get it like… (clicks fingers: ‘fast’), the first time I do something – that I appreciate it a lot just if I can learn something, because I know how precious it is. Maybe you don’t get to do it onstage, but for me there’s already a lot of value in just learning it. So I was really happy, although of course I was also very sad because I knew I would not be the one doing it. You asked me who asked me, but I think it was nobody really asking me, or maybe it was Lutz who told us what we’d be learning in the season. Then came the rehearsals and I was in the schedule. In that moment they picked Breanna to do that. And so I didn’t continue [to learn it]. They said that they would centre it on her, but we could still watch; they didn’t totally say, ‘No.’ Later on they asked me again to watch. I think we were in Hong Kong when they told me I should watch again.

Wuppertal Hongkong Cultural Center, Grand Theatre Lichtburg Wuppertal Opernhaus Wuppertal Breanna O'Mara Emma Barrowman Lutz Förster Nazareth Panadero Café Müller « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Hongkong Cultural Center, Grand Theatre (République populaire de Chine), 8 mars 2017

Chapitre 6.2

Café Müller in Australien

Ricardo Viviani:

Café was in Australia?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes, but there it was always Nazareth dancing.

St. James Theatre Wellington Nazareth Panadero Café Müller « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au St. James Theatre Wellington (Nouvelle-Zélande), 16 mars 2016

Chapitre 6.3

Auf der Café Müller-Bühne

Ricardo Viviani:

But eventually you got to perform it. Where?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Yes, the first time I could perform it was in New York, now one year ago. It was September 2017, later than now, but I think it was in September.

BAM New York Café Müller « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au BAM New York (États-Unis d'Amérique), 14 septembre 2017

Chapitre 6.4

Nîmes

Ricardo Viviani:

Yes, it was the first thing in the season last year. And in Nîmes?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

No, in Nîmes I didn’t dance. In Nîmes it was also Nazareth. Actually Breanna did the general rehearsal (dress rehearsal), but all the performances were Nazareth dancing. But Nîmes was beautiful. It was amazing, because the theatre was amazing. To dance Sacre was also a great experience in this theatre, in Nîmes, because it was open air, already the building is amazing. It was a very nice experience, live music. During Café Müller I had Gänsehaut [goose bumps] all the time.

Arènes de Nîmes Breanna O'Mara Nazareth Panadero « Café Müller » von Pina Bausch au Théâtre de Nîmes (France), 6 juin 2016

Chapitre 6.5

Lange Lernzeit

Ricardo Viviani:

You learned the piece for many years, from the first season that you were in the company to last season when you actually danced. Watching, learning from Nazareth, experiencing the piece, what kind of insights do you have from this person, this role, this person that goes about this room? How is that for you, how do you approach it as a performer?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think there’s an inner story that happens to this character. There is a build-up during the piece, but there’s one thing from this character that brings you through the whole piece, to be able to do it. There is one feeling, at least this is what happens to me. There’s one feeling that goes from the very beginning to the end. I think there is something from my being, actually, maybe it’s too much to say like this. I just mean there is a characteristic of this character, I feel near to. And this is what helps me doing it. I think it’s a very delicate piece. It’s a very delicate character. I don’t feel I am there yet, where Nazareth or the Probeleiter [rehearsal director] want me to be. I think there’s still a lot of work to do, for sure, still. There are some characteristics, there are some things I can work on physically that will be there or not, but there are also inner things that have to help you, and this is not learned easily.

Chapitre 6.6

Weiterlernen

Ricardo Viviani:

Do you feel you have enough rehearsal possibilities? Would you like to have more? Or is it truly the performing with the public [audience], that adds that special moment that develops it?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think there’s a lot of work alone, for sure. I feel it’s very important for me when somebody from outside looks at me and tells me, when Nazareth is there and can say. I also have to say that Nazareth is a person that understands that these things don’t come so fast. She doesn’t push things to happen, but she keeps telling you where you should aim. I have the feeling that she leaves you space to find out who am I in Café Müller, or who can I be in Café Müller, not just copy what she’s doing. One needs the movement of course, trying to be as much like what it should be. But as far as performing goes there’s a lot of room. I think you can also rehearse a lot, but at some point on stage you learn other things that you cannot learn in the rehearsals. When you really perform this piece, when we’re all really involved, really performing, I felt there was another level of learning something else from the piece that didn’t happen in the rehearsal. And I don’t know if it’s because of the public or because what happens in the theatre, this kind of magic. But there were things that I first understood what Nazareth was talking about when I was on the stage. So I think there’s a big journey to go. I really feel just in the first step of the…

Chapitre 6.7

Persönliche Vorbereitung

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

And maybe I can tell you just a very stupid little thing. My hair and Nazareth’s hair are so different. We have to prepare our hair to be able to put the Perücke [wig] on. So when I first had to perform it I thought, ‘Oh my God, what am I going to do with my hair?’ It was very beautiful and very nice. In the other pieces you just do your hair and that’s it. I think it was my first piece dancing with a Perücke. Helena helped me to do my hair, because Helena helps Nazareth to do her hair. But then it was difficult and Pau was also there. He was also doing the piece, and we are very good friends, he said, ‘I can also help.’ So then it ended up that Pau and Helena were doing my hair before performing. I have this feeling that there is so much care of each other before the piece starts. I think this makes it very special then, because there are a lot of these connections of one taking care of the other, even before, something like this, which for me makes the piece very special.

Chapitre 6.8

Vorbereitungen

Ricardo Viviani:

We talked also about how the rehearsals for Café are on other days. Can you tell us about that?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I felt always this was a very special piece, because we were never allowed to see a rehearsal. There was never public allowed, at least since I’ve been doing Sacre, which was the first time that I got near to the company. Even us, we didn’t dare to ask if we could watch a rehearsal. And the general rehearsal [dress rehearsal] was always closed for Café Müller, and maybe open then for us [Sacre]. Then there’s this organisational things, that Café Müller flies before, things from the stage, because the two Bühnenbilder [sets] are so different they need to organise the two pieces very differently. You cannot rehearse at the same time at all. There’s always this sacredness of the piece, I feel, this silence they need, which is super understandable. Once Café Müller starts, in the Ballettsaal starts the training for the people who are dancing Sacre, of course, because it’s a timing thing. You don’t even do the warm up together. It made it also this special thing.

Chapitre 6.9

Den Doppelabend tanzen

Ricardo Viviani:

When you performed in New York, did you perform Sacre afterwards as well? That’s a completely different world as a performer. How was that? Was that a burden, a hard thing, how did you deal with it?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

Somehow it helps that you’ve been onstage already. Although it’s a different character there’s something that helps. Also because you don’t have so much time, so I have to prepare my hair, take off the Nagellack [nail polish]. Maybe it was not necessary, but I cannot dance Sacre; we don’t do any make up. I was kind of wiping off the woman that just danced (laughs) to become something very neutral. But probably the role that I am dancing now in Sacre, which is actually the beginning, the woman that is lying, is heavy because I really have to push because I am the first one to enter. I really have to [say], ‘Blanca calm down, calm down. Concentrate to do another thing.’ But maybe it is so like this you cannot think so much. Once you step on the earth you are in the other world. There is no chance to become anything else. It’s just: in Sacre you can just try to survive. (laughs)

Chapitre 6.10

Sehr spezieller Raum

Ricardo Viviani:

Just to move to a finish is there something else that flashed into your mind and you wanted to [say]?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I think Café Müller probably is so different for each person who’s living it. Of course all the pieces are very different, but in this one specially I feel, somehow, I find it beautiful how there's not so many characters onstage, but the piece makes it that with some people you almost don’t have contact, and with some people you see it just in a moment – and how strong it is then, because it’s not that our characters don’t have contact, at all. It’s not an abstract dance. There is character. There is a lot of humanity. For me it makes it special, in this room, in this café, you enter another world. It’s a very special room.


Chapitre 7

Was ist Tanztheater?

Chapitre 7.1

‚Wow, das ist richtig gut!‘

Ricardo Viviani:

You’ve been involved for many years with a company called Tanztheater Wuppertal Pina Bausch, what is Tanztheater [dance theatre]? How would you describe Tanztheater?

Blanca Noguerol Ramírez:

I mean I have to say still now, if I go to see other companies, like I did this weekend, going to see different performances, and then I go and see my colleagues – they were doing Vollmond – I feel, ‘Wow, this is really good!’ (laughs) It’s really good that I am here because I really think that what Pina created with all those dancers, all those pieces, they still move me as a spectator. They move me as a performer and they move me as a spectator. At the end I feel that for me this is what makes sense if you do performative art. And so for me it’s a kind of performance where there’s a lot of humanity, there’s a lot of critique, there’s a lot of questioning. And there’s a lot of talking about reality, but in a way that’s... really real. So never being just dramatic, but in the drama there's always humour, and in humour there’s always sadness, showing all those kinds of different people that we are in the world. So I think what was Tanztheater Wuppertal, I don’t know if it still is. I would like that it keeps on going. I feel that there’s a lot of beautiful pieces that I think are great to keep on going. They have a very big artistic value. I don’t know if this answers your question? (laughs)

I’ll also say what Tanztheater Wuppertal is for me, and actually I can say it totally changed my life. Because if I didn’t dream to be dancing in this company, I would never have been living in Germany. I would never had found my partner in Germany. The love for this work totally brought me to another way. That’s why I feel it’s very worth it to keep on putting my effort into it, because I really believe in it. When things have to end, it’s also fine. I don’t know if Pina would agree that we keep on doing it. I sometimes have questions to Pina. How can you miss somebody that you’ve never got to know? But working here sometimes I feel like, ‘Oh it’d be so good if she was here, telling something now.’ It’s a big love for this work. (laughs)

Tanztheater Wuppertal


Legal notice

All contents of this website are protected by copyright. Any use without the prior written consent of the respective copyright holder is not permitted and may be subject to legal prosecution. Please use our contact form for usage requests.

Here you can find an overview of the contacts of the photographers whose work is visible in the digital archives.

If, despite extensive research, a copyright holder of the source material used here has not been identified and permission for publication has not been requested, please inform us in writing.

Contact

Haut de page